Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/13/1993 05:00 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 243 PILOTS ON CERTAIN TUGS ON STATE WATERS Number 243 CHAIR FOSTER brought up CSHB 243(TRANS) for discussion before the committee, indicating that the committee had adopted this version before the last meeting adjourned. CHAIR FOSTER referred to Representative Mulder for a subcommittee report on HB 243. Number 439 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER referred to the subcommittee report dated April 13, 1993. He addressed the first concern which was outlined in the letter of intent proposed by the subcommittee for adoption, which follows:: HOUSE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE LETTER OF INTENT CSHB 243(TRA) The House Transportation Committee respectfully requests that the House Judiciary Committee address the issue as to whether the federal government has pre-emption over the State of Alaska's jurisdiction in relation to licensing of marine pilots on rivers as required by this legislation. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER referred to the memorandum attached to the subcommittee report dated April 5, 1993. As was previously indicated by several attorneys, Terri Lauterback, Legislative Counsel, was also unable to provide the committee an answer with respect to federal pre-emption due to time constraints and lack of background knowledge concerning this area of federal law. The issue of pre- emption appears to be sufficient concern to require further study, he said. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER also stated that within the past week, the U.S. Coast Guard, Anchorage office, had taken steps to develop testing standards for the Kuskokwim River. It has been agreed that within the next year the Coast Guard would develop testing standards, and federally licensed masters or others navigating the river would first have to take an examination before piloting the Kuskokwim. Representative Mulder also felt that this Coast Guard action leads us to believe that the Coast Guard is asserting its primary jurisdiction over this river pilotage and at least implicitly confirms the federal legal pre-emption of river pilotage for domestic oil barge traffic. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that the issue was very cloudy and that the underlying questions, the future of oil spills in the area, and the preservation of the water quality in terms of the environment and the economy of the local area, warranted the continuation of this bill through the process. At the same time, he noted there were some very serious questions that could be addressed in the Judiciary Committee before it could be considered for House floor action. Number 473 REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER entertained a motion to adopt the proposed letter of intent for CSHB 243(TRANS). Hearing no objection, CHAIR FOSTER indicated the letter was adopted. Number 485 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY proposed an amendment: Page 1, Line 9: delete: [15,000] and insert: [25,000]. Number 473 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER moved the letter of intent. Hearing no objections, CHAIR FOSTER indicated the motion had passed. Number 514 CHAIR FOSTER asked REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS to address comments to the previous discussion at this time. Number 520 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said that although he did not have a lot of background, in regard to one of the things discussed by Representative Mulder, it is extremely difficult to pass legislation with the anticipation of what the federal government or someone else might do. He said some of the things had come up in opposition to this and Representative Sanders indicated that the bill did not mean more money or a higher price for barged in products on the Kuskokwim. He said it is not about a monopoly for a certain group of pilots or anything like that, and it is not about more regulations, since these regulations were already in place. He indicated that these pilots had been used up until now. What it is about, REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS explained, is they had compromised. First they had the bill where the pilot took control and the industries wanted the pilot not just to do that on the ship. They raised the size of the barges up to 15,000 barrels. He was not sure he could address above that size and indicated he would let Captain Sumstad do that. He felt it sounded terribly high. Most of all, REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said, what the bill was about was the environment out there on the Yukon Delta, which has water fowl and wildlife; some of the best in the United States. Most important, it is about the people out there and their subsistence life style and their concern about losing that if there is an oil spill. He said he had a stack of petitions signed by residents in that area. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS also indicated he also had Former Representative Ivan Ivan and Johnny Hawk at the meeting who live out there. He said the people who live out there are for this and that is what this bill is for - to protect these people. Number 553 CHAIR FOSTER welcomed FORMER REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN to the committee. Number 555 MR. IVAN replied it was good to be back and he wanted to echo some of Representative Sanders' comments in relation to support of the bill before the committee. He said that his people see this as a safety measure to protect the lower Kuskokwim River area. He said he appreciated the necessity of the oil coming up the river. Their dependence on the river system, salmon, silvers and uses of subsistence lifestyle made this bill important to them. He stated that the compromises have been made to satisfy this bill as much as possible; however, it would be extremely hard to amend any accidents that happen out there like you can bills. Number 573 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON told Mr. Ivan that it was extremely nice to have him here, and in particular, he wished he were still around and complimented him on his previous legislation, which Representative Hudson felt was outstanding. Number 583 CHAIR FOSTER requested JOHNNY HAWK, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER FOR CALISTA CORPORATION, to testify before the committee regarding HB 243. Number 585 MR. HAWK said they represent 56 villages of the 200 communities in the state in rural Alaska. He felt he could not express enough the importance of this legislation to this part of Alaska. He said that up to 90 percent of their diet consists of the salmon on the river, and this is the primary source of food for an economically distressed area, as a lot of the committee may be aware. He said it is also the primary source of income for his people on the Delta. He said that he understood the amount of income was not a lot, however, it was enough to sustain a lifestyle coupled with the subsistence lifestyle of the people now. It is a protection for a lifestyle for the people, he said. CHAIR FOSTER requested CAPTAIN CHARLES PHILLIPS, a captain on the river for 26 years, to speak to the committee. CAPTAIN PHILLIPS spoke in Yupik to the committee and Former Representative Ivan Ivan translated for him. Captain Phillips echoed the concerns and necessity addressed by the previous speakers, Johnny Hawk and Ivan Ivan, stressing the importance of the subsistence lifestyle on the people in this area. TAPE 93-14, SIDE B Number 021 MR. IVAN stressed the importance of HB 243 and stated that the river is their main food source and that they wanted to protect it. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad if he could respond to the question as to what the smallest and largest size barge deliveries of fuel currently were. CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that 10,000 barrels was currently the smallest and the largest went from 38,000 to 40,000 barrels. He stated his concerns regarding his fears that someone would try to transport that amount without a pilot. Number 100 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to the position paper within the members' files, pointing specifically to the word "precedent" within the letter and read that portion of the position paper: "Passage of this bill will be precedent setting for the State of Alaska, and possibly the nation. The establishment of pilot requirements, as stated in this legislation, will place a requirement on the Board of Marine Pilots to set a maximum tariff, which will be applicable to all barge traffic." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS then asked in particular the application of the word "tariff" within the paper. Number 200 CARL LUCK, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, stated that this legislation would be precedent setting for the State of Alaska and noted that at this time no other state had requirements such as these. He referred to the current requirements in relation to foreign traffic. Number 296 REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE voiced his previous concerns, which related to the fact that there were currently only three licensed pilots. In the following discussion, it was indicated that there were currently only two licensed pilots at this time. REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE then questioned what would happen when they were not available for the interest of the public receiving those goods. Number 326 CARL LUCK replied that piloting regulations contain language which allow a ship's master to move these barges to haul oil when pilots are physically not available. Number 360 REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE stated that he hoped the committee would bear with him and he fully appreciated the intent of this legislation by the sponsors; however, he felt he needed to address some of his concerns before the bill passed from committee. HE noted his concern that HB 243 was creating legislation for special interest purposes and felt that the bill had all the appearances of special interest legislation, which generally results in negative impact to the public. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad whether any foreign bottoms operated on the river at this time. CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that currently foreign bottom barges hauled fish on the river. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad whether this legislation pertained to non-hazardous materials or only to oil. Number 402 CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that this legislation pertained only to barges transporting oil. Number 405 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY questioned the proposed legislation, Section 1, which required the pilot to control the vessel during all docking and undocking operations. He felt the requirement was strange since a master should know his vessel's characteristics best. He also expressed his concerns of the liability assumed by the pilot if an accident should occur. Number 480 MR. LUCK replied that pilots are required to carry liability of $250 thousand. Number 481 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied that $250 thousand was nothing when dealing with the impact of an oil spill. He expressed the concern that the State might be assuming the liability by the license requirement if a spill was caused by a State licensed pilot and exceeded the amount of $250 thousand. Number 489 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON questioned Section 1 of the proposed legislation that required the pilot to control the vessel during all docking and undocking operations and stated he was nervous about this provision. Number 505 CAPTAIN SUMSTAD stated that a pilot does not need to dock under this legislation and he was surprised by the language in the bill which required this. Number 507 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS stated that he did not know this was included in this legislation and would be glad to eliminate that provision at this time. Number 512 CHAIR FOSTER entertained a motion to remove Section 1 from the proposed legislation. Hearing no objections, the motion passed. Number 528 REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE addressed his concerns that more information was needed to examine the economic impact of compulsory pilotage on the Kuskokwim with respect to fuel prices in the area. If the costs increase, he said, there will be a lot of upset people in the impacted area. Number 535 CAPTAIN SUMSTAD said the people were willing to deal with the costs of this and noted that this requirement would add 1/2 cent per barrel. Number 541 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved his motion to amend the amount of barrels from 15,000 to 25,000. Number 479 CAPTAIN SUMSTAD felt 25,000 was too much weight for the physical size of the barges. Number 602 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON and REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE felt they might feel more comfortable if more data was available regarding barge sizes and weight capacities. REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked why the size of the barge wasn't stipulated instead. Number 625 REPRESENTATIVE MENARD brought forward the previous motion by Representative Vezey which changed the amount of barrels of oil from 15,000 to 25,000. Number 630 The motion failed. Number 632 REPRESENTATIVE MENARD moved HB 243 as amended from the House Transportation Committee with individual recommendations. CHAIR FOSTER noted hearing no objections, so CSHB 243(TRANS) was moved from committee with individual recommendations.
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